Curse

DreamRunner · Aug 29, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No, really, the people that oppose to having 7 heroes and think the henchmen are any good suck. Only the henchmen in GW:EN are good. The ones in NF are average, and anyone that thinks the monk henchmen in Cantha are any good is an idiot.

I can make all the henchmen better then they currently are and would love to be able to do so. I dont want to waste my time playing with retarded henchmen and retarded pugs.

So by having 7 heroes you really want to have PvE easier. Amazing. Also why do people oppose this idea suck? Because you dislike it? It seems to me that people who are oppose to this find that you can play GW currently just fine, meaning they have no problems with the heroes\henchmen system. So they must be decent! But since that, your reasoning and logic by saying that they suck doesn't mix, so try again.

The monk henchmen in Cantha are fine for normal mode. I don't really see any problem with them other than there bars that could help fixing but for just GW, it works fine. Although to be blunt I think you don't want to use the time to get any better at GW.

bhavv · Aug 29, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So by having 7 heroes you really want to have PvE easier. Amazing. Also why do people oppose this idea suck? Because you dislike it? It seems to me that people who are oppose to this find that you can play GW currently just fine, meaning they have no problems with the heroes\henchmen system. So they must be decent! But since that, your reasoning and logic by saying that they suck doesn't mix, so try again.

The monk henchmen in Cantha are fine for normal mode. I don't really see any problem with them other than there bars that could help fixing but for just GW, it works fine.

No, people that oppose this idea Either dont play hero/hench, and or dont play HM.

Even if you do oppsose it, how would allowing other players to use 7 heroes if they choose to use them affect your gameplay at all? It wouldnt. Its more selfish then just outright opposing the idea.

The Henchmen in cantha ARE FINE FOR NORMAL MODE Of course they are, but they are not fine for HM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Although to be blunt I think you don't want to use the time to get any better at GW.

Are you ****ing kidding me? I have been trying to get Gaurdian of Cantha for several months now. I Either cannot find enough people or keep failing on the harder missions because henchmen suck. Get a life and stop critisising people that realise henchmen skillbars are terrible. If you think the henchmen are fine, you are a crap player.

DreamRunner · Aug 29, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No, people that oppose this idea Either dont play hero/hench, and or dont play HM.

Even if you do oppsose it, how would allowing other players to use 7 heroes if they choose to use them affect your gameplay at all? It wouldnt. Its more selfish then just outright opposing the idea.

The Henchmen in canthar ARE FINE FOR NORMAL MODE Of course they are, but they are not fine for HM

Are you ****ing kidding me? I have been trying to get Gaurdian of Cantha for several months now. I Either cannot find enough people or keep failing on the harder missions because henchmen suck. Get a life and stop critisising people that realise henchmen skillbars are terrible. If you think the henchmen are fine, you are a crap player.

So I'm an exception? I must be rare, also since when HM first came out people started to say that heroes\henchmen through HM is fine too.

How about the fact that allowing 7 heroes makes henchmen obsolete for the reason they are put there?

Ahh, so its henchmen are bad for HM. What a turn of events! So henchmen are fine for normal mode, but since they were made BEFORE HM(like zomg) people are crying that heroes\henchmen system doesn't work in HM? Did PvE become so much harder?! But maybe you are right, although they should just make the henchmen bar's better like they have done in GW:EN.

Hmm, seems you've added a bit. But you really seem fired up, and i've already said that there bars could need some help. Want me to repeat it for you? I like your internet insults though, they make me warm and fuzzy even though you are really trying to hurt me inside.

So you don't have any friends to help you or guild mates if you have a guild for last several months? It also only takes two people with heroes, and it hasn't happened in several months? Damn....

wilebill · Aug 29, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

We've been complaining about henchies since Prophecies. ANet eventually made a few changes there, not dramatic but they did change it a bit.

The henchies we have now in Nightfall and GW:EN are good enough for me. Full heroes? Think that will never happen myself.

bhavv · Aug 29, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Full heroes? Think that will never happen myself.

Well, there will be plenty of complaing to go around untill it does happen.

Vamis Threen · Aug 29, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I took heroes and hench all the way round the three continents. Me (SF), hero interupter, hero MM, A.N. Other Hero, 4 henchies. It's possible in all the missions and areas except for a few in Cantha, where you need humans because the AI (and not the builds) won't cut it. But generally the henchies are okay, especially if you are just looking for meat shields. 7 heroes wouldn't have helped me in the places I couldn't do by myself (Boreas, Eternal Grove). Things may be worse if you're not a backline caster, though, as I found Factions (but not NF) was a nightmare on a Sin in even NM.

It seems we're not going to get 7 heroes, and I don't agree with the justifications Anet have given, but as I've said previously, decent henchies in Prophecies would suit me fine.

(PS in case you're wondering, Dzagonur took me 19 hours before I beat it in HM.)

Vindetta · Aug 29, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I really love people telling me I'm a crap player even if it's indirectly aimed as a blanket statement. If you're SMART and not in a HURRY and know what you're doing, even in HM? Henchmen are just fine. BUT!!! Even I'll admit, you cannot control certain aspects of them OR heroes! Here, let me explain. Because they're not a Player, their priorities on skill usage is totally random. Their targeting, totally random at best times. Yeah you can even see this when their Kiting AI kicks in when they're approaching low health and all they do is run around no matter how many times you re-flag them.

Heroes or Henchmen, will NEVER take the place of REAL players. You're kidding yourself if you think they can or will. Yes, even I use heroes and henchmen a lot because to be honest, with my heroes having runes, insignias, good weapons, they're better fit than 70% of the players I meet in PuG's. Which is why I stopped going PuG's totally. People in general don't care and are at best lazy and careless in their play style. Which is not good when you're on a Timed Mission, HM or anything that requires some actually tactical thinking.

So while the argument may be why not have 7 heroes? There is the other why? Because they're still not as good as Human players and you can already make some insane builds after GW:EN's initial release. Try going into HB with 3 Mesmers and a Monk. I can think of some rather nasty builds to use this way. So no, I think having only 3 heroes is enough, even though I personally wouldn't mind being able to use 7. I just realize that it's just not needed. And to be totally honest, HM was not meant to be Hero/Henched all the way through. It was meant to add a much more difficult challenge and get you working as a TEAM with other players to get it done.

This is my two cents worth!

Taki · Aug 29, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cythean

there are good background enchantments or stances that would make life million times easier. (Holy Haste Anybody?) If you run a noob build, we will laugh at you. It is part of the game. Even better, I'll give you my skype info. You call me, then I'll laugh in your face and tell you how big of a noob you are.

You laugh at and call other people noobs, yet you run holy haste. Nothing more really needs to be said about that, especially given the age or maturity of the products of withdrew-too-late syndrome.

Anet has already said we won't get seven heroes but in addition to it probably being 'too dificult' here's two more reasons in my opinion:

1) Seven heroes are overkill for PvE as they're much more coordinated, able to react faster than, and generally lord over most players even with their limitations and flaws. You know the Hench/Hero/Enemy A.I.'s strengths, weaknesses, and in most cases you also know their builds as well. If you can't accomplish something with these static factors then you need to accept the reality that you're not as good as you think you are and step up your game or ask for help.

Which begs the question are the people asking for more heroes too proud or too embarrassed to ask someone to help them? Could you really suck so hard at GW that you need an even greater advantage than your personal 4 man wrecking crew?

2) An MMO or online game that has lost it's social factor is beyond dead. More controllable heroes would be perfect if GW1 went offline/public, but then GW2 sales would most likely suffer.

3) I need food. Peace.

Omniclasm · Aug 29, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

You laugh at and call other people noobs, yet you run holy haste. Nothing more really needs to be said about that, especially given the age or maturity of the products of withdrew-too-late syndrome.

Would you rather a monk with Holy Haste or a monk with Lightning Orb? Like he said, people just fill in random skills to fill the skill bar.

bhavv · Aug 29, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So you don't have any friends to help you or guild mates if you have a guild for last several months? It also only takes two people with heroes, and it hasn't happened in several months? Damn....

You are plain stupid and obviously cant, or cant be bothered to read anything.

You cannot beat Eternal Grove, Unwaking Waters and Vizunah square with just two people on HM. Why dont you go try it? Obviously because your too noob for HM.

With 7 heroes, at least two people could complete Vizunah Square and Unwaking waters from entering from both sides. I have every other HM mission completed except these three, Tyria only took me 4 days to complete on HM, and I havnt bothered with elona yet.

Believe me I found *Enough pugs* wanting to do the missions, but they just got kicked after pinging their bars (worse then the henchmen) At most I only got 3 guildies for HM missions in an active guild with 90+ members.

bhavv · Aug 29, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

1) Seven heroes are overkill for PvE as they're much more coordinated, able to react faster than, and generally lord over most players even with their limitations and flaws. You know the Hench/Hero/Enemy A.I.'s strengths, weaknesses, and in most cases you also know their builds as well. If you can't accomplish something with these static factors then you need to accept the reality that you're not as good as you think you are and step up your game or ask for help.

2) An MMO or online game that has lost it's social factor is beyond dead. More controllable heroes would be perfect if GW1 went offline/public, but then GW2 sales would most likely suffer. So by your logic, if you cant beat GVG or HA using the henchmens skill bars on human players then you arent a good player?

1) Turn on HM and try make a group of 8 human players. Untill you have tried it stop posting BS. It is practically impossible to create a decent H/H group with 4 henchmen from Tyria and Cantha.

2) GW is not dead, the social factor is still there via Guild and Alliance chat. Pug is dead because the majority of pugs are lame.

3) Adding 7 heroes will actually get more people playing PVE in GW, because it is a lot more enjoyable then using henchies or idiots.

Wilkon Dawes · Aug 29, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

i dunno about you guys but i like GW's just the way it is. people who find using only 3 heroes retarded just lost connection to the game, its called their are other people out there to play with.

dont change the game.

boxterduke · Aug 29, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I would love to take a full team of heros since now with GWEN we have too many of them.
I took the earth hench in GWEN and got the ward against foes, and instead its against element.

/signed for full team of heros.

Lagg · Aug 29, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Seriously, they can't use the (rather overpowered) PvE skills anyway.

Just give us 7 already. It's not the end of multiplayer PvE by a long shot.

Bryant Again · Aug 29, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

1) Turn on HM and try make a group of 8 human players. Untill you have tried it stop posting BS. It is practically impossible to create a decent H/H group with 4 henchmen from Tyria and Cantha.

Nah it's not harder. Finding that one build that'll help steamroll the area is a little harder, I'll admit, but after that it's smooth sailin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Seriously, they can't use the (rather overpowered) PvE skills anyway.

That's actually a pretty good point, especially with GW:EN on the way.

The reason I'd like, not want, to have a full team of heroes is because it's just more personal. That's all. I've already stated my reasons for it not happening, though, so in no way is my breath being held.

BabyJ · Aug 29, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

I usually end takin the same heros all the time, cause, lets face it....the henchies need a skillbar makeover. So i rarely get to enjoy my other heros.

bhavv · Aug 29, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilkon Dawes

i dunno about you guys but i like GW's just the way it is. people who find using only 3 heroes retarded just lost connection to the game, its called their are other people out there to play with.

dont change the game.

If you like playing the game the way it is, you can carry on playing it the way it is. The majority of players however dont like being limited to only 3 heroes and would like to use 7.

Melody Cross · Aug 29, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

@bhavv: it is entirely possible to beat prophecies in HM with H/H. Factions is harder due to the timed requirement for masters and some of the extra-mission requirements in Luxon/Kurzick territory, but a good guild can supplement those...but Vizunah is H/Hable if you start with the monk. Norgu and Razah(instead of the MMbomber) make it doable, but still very hard to finish in time.

I didn't stop PuGing because of newbies who have bad builds. I like newbies; I gave them advice on their builds all the time, and if my guild had newbies, the ping build feature would make it real easy to build a backline nowadays. I stopped PuGing because every other group seemed to be either led by a very rude person on an e-power trip or was wiped by the actions of that same person who refused to listen to advice. Even the groups I formed became infested by people with no awareness of sportsmanship or manners. They hid behind their avatars to experiment with every vulgarity the language filters would let slip through, perpetrate any misconduct the game would allow (that their parents, teachers and bosses would not permit them to indulge in RL), and in general make my gaming experience less fun.

Because I am not their toy, I stopped letting them treat me so.

IMO, people will continue to shun PuGs and regular grouping outside PvP until/unless there is an active and effective way to report EULA offenders. That means real time access to GMs, something that other MMOs have, but GW may not be able to afford with its business model or use real time with its current server setup.

Because PuGs are less than desirable for people to use in a loosely protected game world, many people try to finish as much of the game as possible with heroes and henchmen before burdening their guildmates with the tougher missions and areas. They avoid one of the chief ways to interact with other players, choosing to run by themselves or only with those whose reputation is proven and actions are monitored...by officers and GLs. As people get used to running by themselves, they do it more, become confident in their own abilities and less confident in others who are asking for help (because, after all, they did it; why can't the other person?).

Until there are active mods in GW that players can report reprehensible behavior to (and by reporting, feel safer) most players will avoid playing with each other in favor of heroes and guild teams (tbh, a good guild team can often be no more than 2 people with well specced heroes).

Even alone though, half a good team is better than one total jerk (and if you don't believe that, look how many people PuG with you).

So...if better GMs are not an option, I /sign the inclusion of heroes from 3 to 7. Will it make the game easier? Of course. But it will at least give people more awareness of how skills work together; teach them build design, not just character design, and improve overall play experience for people who--frankly--do not want to play with each other.

PS: sry bhavv. yeah, you need more than one person to play Vizunah. I was thinking of Nuaphai er whatever

longhornrob · Aug 29, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Well, let's be honest guys. 90-95% of missions are already easy even with henchies. Adding Heroes would really only make the process funner.

Draikin · Aug 29, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

However, according to James Phinney, that is not going to happen because it is not within the design vision of the game and the game is not designed to support that mechanic. And no, the game will not be redesigned to allow this mechanic, ...

Yet the mechanic already exists, heroes can already act like henches as evidenced by the people running two accounts to add 3 additional heroes to their team. I don't see how a redesign is necessary when the functionality is already there.

I also believe Anet is exaggerating the impact this change would have. For example the Mind Blast build Cynn is currently using in GW:EN is really not that bad, the same thing goes for Mhenlo who's now using LoD. You can improve the build (for example in Hard Mode I'd really want Mhenlo to use Protective Spirit instead of Vigorous Spirit, and Cynn could be running Rodgort's Invocation on that Mind Blast build) but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to kill things twice as fast with those changes. The extra customization from runes and weapons will just make the build a little more efficient for people that are willing to invest time in upgrading their heroes. You'd be surprised how many people don't even bother to give their heroes runes or weapons or spend time tweaking their builds, and now that GW:EN henches are better than ever I suspect the new heroes won't even be used by most people.